Governance, Oracles and AI

nonono, what do you mean oracle network becoming a blockchain-like system.
we need oracles to become an ai, at least it’s our endgame. or oracles have to submit the output to some computational off-chain network somehow trustless, trust minimized, and return it and post it to the blockchain.
fundamentally pure governance is probably impossible without oracles, right
i repeat, fundamentally pure governance is probably impossible without oracles.

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Hello, Sam! Welcome to the Smart Contract Research Forum. As you’ll notice from most of the other comments in the thread, we encourage our commentators to back up their statements with evidence and links to outside sources. Would you like to elaborate on why governance is probably impossible without oracles? Or why we need oracles to become an AI or output to a computational chain network.

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Well, fundamentally pure governance - is an anonymous governance with very powerful capabilities and without supervision of a centralized entity. There is an optimistic way to make it work without oracles: simply by creating a very high minimum quorum and ensure privacy of every voter and every vote, so that bribing will be much harder. There are also ways to split voting in stages right, so that first vote goes without accounting for a stake, but accounting for humanness of this anonymous voter, and then it proceeds to second stage which is voted upon solely by stake.
However, the more power the governance has, the more interest there is to bribe it in some way, so this optimistic model while can probably function correctly with some limited power, eventually if the protocol governance is able to create a little bit too much impact in this world, it is definitely at risk.
So the only way left for actual fundamentally pure governance to exist no matter how powerful it is, is to have a decentralized oracle network as governance proposer, so that no voter will actually propose anything, voters will only vote on proposals generated by an AI.
First, it’s a simple model, oracles find suitable data and filter it through certain minimum measurable observable limits, basically acting like sort of sophisticated search engine robots, then they propose those options for the governance, and if the governance fails to vote, then the option is chosen randomly or just about randomly. So it does not matter at all, if the governance is compromised, it can be compromised from the very start, and it will still stay fundamentally pure.
Idk, I can write a book about it and talk about it all day, I don’t have links to actual research about it, my schizopaper does not explain a lot: Aletheo/Aletheo Whitepaper 0.5.pdf at main · SamPorter1984/Aletheo · GitHub

Basically, fundamentally pure governance, which can’t be exploited by anonymous bad actors has to have decentralized AI as a proposer. Simple.

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I think you have some salient points, and I don’t even necessarily disagree with your framing. I am interested to hear what you propose to get to a democratically generated AI that doesn’t simply reflect the interests of the team involved in building the base code?

In other words, how do you have a decentralized AI that truly represents the interests of everyone if only a few developers are involved in creating its foundational code?

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Interesting thought experiment happening here, not sure it has much to do with the Chainlink 2.0 release though. Going to move this to a new thread.

@SamPorter1984 Feel free to edit your original comment to provide additional context.

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Well, sadly no, the most advanced God Protocol to date is not as advanced to really represent everybody’ interests this way.
It’s created under the assumption that empires of the past didn’t have the surveillance tech giants of today have, and basically we stand before multi-millennial China reign. So it attempts to create balance until it’s too late. And simply to not be compromised by this agenda and not to end up in a robotic neuralink-alternative dystopian surveillance nightmare future, we have to take a stand, protect the freedom of the individual. This specific governance part, which requires an AI is mainly focused on supporting free software to speed up world progress, speed up robotics, so that the main advantage China has - huge population, won’t be as powerful. Well, actually it’s about many things, implications are quite interesting, I would recommend you to take a look.
For example it will also attempt to bring the internet everywhere, because the internet is the watch. Devastating conventional warfare is less likely to happen in countries where there are enough phones and computers.
Also this governance relies on basic assumption that if it is not fair to voters, voting power leaves, so we have an economic incentive for the team to prevent that.

uh, actually it is related, because this dao is going to use chainlink. but okay i guess

can you link any research that connects what you’re talking about to decentralized oracles?

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I cannot, it’s my own logical conclusions

Aletheo discusses the tokenomics more than it discusses how the AI will not have the interests of the main coder (in this case you) be represented instead of a democratic amalgamation of perspectives. That is what I am looking for. The notion of an AI that governs oracles is great, however getting there will take a lot of research and testing which is where I am asking if this is all theoretical or if you have seen someone actually trying this in a lab or in the wild somewhere?

Creating an actual AI for this can take quite a lot of time, that’s why I didn’t really mention much about it. so the paper only focuses on something that is ready or almost ready today. I don’t think such a research exists, and I am very skeptical if somebody already tried to create it. So apparently Aletheo will likely try it first, and yeah it is basically a theory, no actual research with models is done here.
I edited a bit the message above, added a sentence about economic incentive for developers, since developer’ emission will take many-many years. So that if this governance is unfair, the voting power leaves. I think that if this is not exactly a perfect solid ground to create fairness, still it is an incentive that at least creates an implication that this AI is less likely to be biased.
Also, I should not have been stated that fundamentally pure governance can exist at all, that was a poor choice of words from my side i guess. Actually what I believe in is that, if it is possible at all, it probably needs oracles. I will eventually release my personal research on this and I don’t care if it won’t be taken seriously by scientific community, because it will be rather purely theoretical and logical than empirical, much more philosophical
anyway, I just want to build the God Of Truth, that’s all I want. Objective truth is basically only one thing, right, there are no truth to specifically include somebody’ interests, that’s not truth, that’s lies, truth does not care about anybody interests, it’s just facts.

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But it’s still a great point, how do we make this AI not being maliciously upgraded by oracle nodes? All of them collectively. There are multiple ways, but it yet to be decided.

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